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And Why I Think Atheists Are Delusional . . .

. . . Because they engage in straw-man arguments on subjects they know little or nothing about.

My list is not only shorter, it's far more charitable.

I won't engage all of WriterDD's arguments, as I do not feel I have to answer for people not of my denomination. But I will answer the Catholic ones.

The Pope in [sic] infallible, even though some Popes overturn what previous Popes said (Catholics)

Catholics do not believe the Pope is infallible. That is a gross mischaracterization and oversimplification of what the Catholic faith believes, and which was explained at the first Vatican Council in 1870. To put it accurately, Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit preserves the Pope from error when he rules on matters of faith and morals. I'll let Wikipedia's summary of it stand as the "good enough" answer.

In Catholic theology, papal infallibility is the dogma that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error[1] when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. For all such infallible teachings, the Holy Spirit also works through the body of the Church to ensure that the teaching will be received by all Catholics.

This doctrine was defined dogmatically in the First Vatican Council of 1870. According to Catholic theology, there are several concepts important to the understanding of infallible, divine revelation: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Sacred Magisterium. The infallible teachings of the pope are part of the Sacred Magisterium, which also consists of ecumenical councils and the "ordinary and universal magisterium". In Catholic theology, papal infallibility is one of the channels of the infallibility of the Church. The infallible teachings of the pope must be based on, or at least not contradict, Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture. Papal infallibility does not signify that the pope is impeccable, i.e., that he is specially exempt from liability to sin.

According to The Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Catholicism: "In reality, the pope seldom uses his power of infallibility......rather than being some mystical power of the pope, infallibility means the church allows the office of the pope to be the ruling agent in deciding what will be accepted as formal beliefs in the church."[2] Since the 1870 solemn declaration of Papal Infallibility by Vatican I, this power has been used only once: in 1950 when Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as being an article of faith for Roman Catholics.

As for Popes overturning what other Popes have advanced, I can only say "Oh, do tell." Please provide an example of where one Pope has overruled another on something in the Deposit of Faith. And stammering "Um, Galileo?" is not a correct answer.

Satan, or the devil, is a real being who can hurt you (Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Catholics and many others)

Indeed, we believe that the Devil is a real being, and indeed, that he can hurt you. I would suggest you study the history of the sacramental of exorcism if you doubt that the Devil, and his agents, exist. Contact the Catholic archbishop in your part of the world, and ask if you can meet his diocesan exorcist. A Spanish journalist followed Fr. Fortea around a while back, and found the experience somewhat disturbing.

When you eat dry bread in church, it turns into the flesh of Jesus in your stomach (Catholics)

By "dry", I assume you mean unleavened. And no, we do not believe it turns into the flesh of Jesus Christ in our stomachs, as it is Jesus Christ upon the altar, or if it is never consumed, or if it is placed in a monstrance and worshipped. We do not assume that man's stomach has anything to do with the consecration of the host. The parishoner and the priest effect no magic. The action is done by the Holy Spirit during the consecration, enabling us to participate not only in Christ's sacrifice at Calvary, but also at the Last Supper where the sacrament was first given by Christ, and commanded to be performed for all eternity by priests acting in His name. In short, we believe in something far greater, more mysterious, and strange than your unworthy little cynical statement indicates.

Miracles include Jesus and Mary appearing in toast and making statues cry (Catholics)

Really? Do tell. The Vatican has certified a miracle involving Jesus appearing in toast? As for statues, well, I suppose one could get involved in a discussion of the practice of venerating icons, which is an ancient practice of the Church, but I'm not really open to it. Why should I be? If I made an outrageous mischaracterization such as "Buddhists are so stupid they worship statues of fat men" I would not expect a Buddhist to seriously engage me on the topic. So instead, I'll ask for an example. Do a little research, WriterDD, and let me know of these miracles you allege that I believe in.

Lying to kids about contraception and safe sex is a good idea (Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Catholics, and others)

I would simply ask that you name the method of contraception that is 100% effective. Catholics teach that condoms fail, and that the pill is not always reliable; nor are its side effects completely without harm. Which part of that is untrue? As far as moral teaching goes, Catholics believe that sex is reserved for marriage between man and a woman, and should a woman become pregnant, married or not, that it is wrong to kill the child. Go back fifty years and that's what pretty much everone believed. Except, of course, for lovely characters like Margaret Sanger, who were lauding the positive aspects of abortion from the viewpoint of the eugenics. Do we really want to get into a discussion of who was telling the truth on that debate?

It is one thing to engage people of faith on the merits. It is another to mock them out of simple bigotry.

I'm trying to tell you, WriterDD, that you are doing the latter. And it isn't appreciated. A dose of skepticism is a good thing, for it prevents us from foolishness. But skepticism isn't a very nourishing creed.

Try a little charity instead.

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This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on March 13, 2008 7:33 PM.

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